Sunday, November 22, 2009

Lash of Submission Armies in Decline?

Here's a (not very random) question (given BoLS recent article on the state of the metagame) for everyone out there: are you seeing less and less of "Lash of Submission" type armies?

I am, and I wanted to know if you are as well?

...For the un-initiated, a Lash of Submission army is a Chaos Space Marine army build that seeks to exploit the Slaaneshi psychic power of the same name. Usually, there are two daemon princes (or sorcerers) who use this ability for multiple reasons: to bring opponent's squads out of heavy cover, bunch them together to make sure a big whopping splat template hits the lot of them (e.g. from a supporting vindicator), push them further away to deny them the charge (and ensure one's own troops are the ones doing the charging), and all sorts of similar shenanigans. Typically, the chaos player will back this tactic up with a few plague marine squads to sit on top of objectives when required.

When was the last time your saw, or ran, a Lash of Submission army? Is this a local, or more global phenomenon?


Adam said...

I haven't seen The Lash for a while now. Because 5th edition has become so mechanised on the tournament scene, it's not nearly as good as it once was.

Also, people are fed up of the cut n' paste Chaos armies right now.

In my Grand Tournament report I faced a World Eaters army that came 5th which had a fantastic mixture of units while being a pure Blood For The Blood God army. So there are other good Chaos army builds out there.

Captain Khorne said...

the mech army is the new black. they are powerful (as seen by the throne of skulls tournament results, all mech marines, orks, eldar and guard). Lashes work best when the armies heavy hitters are on foot, as there are less infantry hitters less lashes are taken. Hope that answers it :D

jabberjabber said...

Yes - I agree with both you. Certainly the common mech builds rob the Lash army of a good deal of their imapct. Perhaps the new Nids might cause a slight resurgence of the Chaos Lash? ;)

Old School Terminator said...

When 5th came out I was already over the 2 Lash thing (it was great in 4th), but with the new vic damage chart, there were more vehicles and overnight, nearly no footslogging troops (except Orks and Crons of course). Do for the last year and a half, I have run a single lash when I run my tourny list. I got tired of the cookie cutter feel of it myself and more and more, the lash only has been useful once a game - maybe. Combine that with the fact that local newbs started their Chaos armies and within a month became clones of mine and it was time to move on.
Now I am completing my FW World Eaters army and I already run a Death Guard army with some success (though it feels a bit boring).
Truthfully, it is a bit liberating to abbandon the lash and plague crutch and realize that you can still be massively competitive.

Raptor1313 said...

I'm with pretty much everyone else.

The Lash does nothing against vehicles. Vehicles are solid things.

I think the Lash can still be a utility, but since everyone's in a vehicle, well, you don't really NEED it so much. Go get something like Kharn for your HQ.

Dezartfox said...

I playeas against a Dual lash list last weekend at the GT, out of three times he used it he failed twice and rolled a double 1 for the movement for the successful roll.

Old School Terminator said...

The way things are right now, Lash Princes have a hard time justifying their place in leue of other HQ choices. This is where tooled up lords and the comeback of the CSM Land Raider come back (My Vehicle is bigger than yours). I also run Nurgle Princes with wings and Warp time, but they really have a tough time getting shot by all the anti-vehicle weapons on the board ... but I think Princes in general are still pretty solid. There just has to be a new discussion when it comes to Chaos HQ choice rather than the old "Lash Prince or WT Prince" that has been the topic for so long.

jabberjabber said...

Great discussion Folks!

The concensus is quite clear here: the mechanized army builds that characterize 5th edition have removed the power of the Lash Prince.

Old School Terminator: yes, the chaos codex has a multitude of HQ choices available. A well-thought out Lord, or Kharn (etc.) should be seen more often on the table top these days. I've also been moving away from my Nurgle daemon prince lately (even though I like the model!)

oni said...

I see warp time being used a lot. It's a far better power IMO.

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