Tuesday, July 10, 2012

I'm confused about "Look Out Sir!"

I have to admit, I am confused about "Look Out Sir!" rule in 6th edition.

When I first read the rules, I thought that the intended interpretation was that if your squad leader was about to die, then you can potentially (on a die roll that is) make a different member of the squad perish instead.

Now, I'm reading that this will only happen if the squad leader takes a hit from a blow that allows no save (e.g. lascannon shot to the head; powerfist to the big toe; and so forth).  i.e. this transferral is done before any saves are rolled ... rather than you try to save the squad leader, fail the saving throw, but someone else in the squad jumps in to take the death-scene instead.

It strikes me as a classic RAW (rules as written) versus RAI (rules as intended) conflict ... except I'm interpreting what was intended, rather than GW telling me what it is!

This rule may well need a quick FAQ ruling from Games Workshop to make it 100% clear.  Whilst I agree that the people interpreting it as saving the squad leader from that lascannon shot are correct (RAW), I just can't yet get past my own RAI interpretation (yet).  Of course, this might all go back to the first rule in the new rule book ....!


MattyJ said...

As written, a look out sir may only be taken by a character when a wound(or unsaved wound)is allocated to said character. So, the way I read it make your saves as normal if the wound or wounds land on your character then make your look out sir roll or rolls. As one look out sir roll is able to be made per roll. Also I dont think squad leaders are classified as characters.


MattyJ said...

one look out sir able to be made per wound.. my bad

Doc Railgun said...

Squad leaders are specifically characters now. Check the Character's section.

TheGraveMind said...

From my reading, since it says wound or unsaved wound, you an do a look out sir before or after you roll armor saves. You can try and pass it on to a guy who has a better save, or if you fail your armor save, have some other poor fellow take the wound. I don't see this as too powerful, as most the time it is on a 4+.
And with the new wound allocation rules, it helps keep the important characters alive.
Besides, it is more "Cinematic" that way.

Bahz said...

look out sir is done during wound allocation, which is always done to the closest model first.

There are two ways to do this. see page 15 brb. All of the successful hit rolls go into the wound pool for allocation.

First, If the whole unit have the same armor save and the hits have the same ap: you fast roll the saves for all the wounds in the pool and allocate unsaved wounds. these are allocated one at a time to the closest model until it dies, then next closest model, repeat. If this model is a character or IC, when an unsaved wound is allocated to it, you can look out sir. success, remove a wound from the intervening model. failure, remove a wound from the character. repeat until all unsaved wounds are removed from the wound pool.

If the unit has mixed saves/ap's, you allocate wounds one at a time to the closest model. If this model is a character or IC, when a wound is allocated to it, you can look out sir. success, the wound goes to the intervening model who takes their save vs that wound. failure, the character must make their save vs that wound. repeat until all wounds are gone from the wound pool.

you can mix/match the two techniques a little bit. for example, you have three marines in front of a terminator armored captain. you can fast roll the three marines until they die off, then do the terminator.

Remember, LOS rolls are done at the wound allocation step and you must decide to LOS as they are allocated. You can not chose to wait until a later step to LOS.

therefore, a character can not be allocated a wound, choose to take his save, fail, then choose to los it to another model.

The character is allocated a wound, you choose to LOS, then saves are rolled.

you can save your instant death or low ap wounds for what ever model you want, you don't have to apply wounds in any order.

Bahz said...

I mean the attacker can choose to save their instant death or low ap wounds, and allocate them when they choose.

clear as mud?

Ian Logsdon said...


Well explained! I was slightly foggy on it, but you spelled it out well, thanks.

jabberjabber said...

Superb explanations guys!

Thanks heaps :)

Bénito Quenton said...

You take the save first. If there's a wound now you take LoS (p.16 for LoS and p.15 for the wound sequence)

Wound sequence
1. Take saving throw (Bob the character is hit 3 time by las cannon, succeed 1 save on his 2+5+)
2. Allocate unsaved wound (Bob receive 2 Instant death wound)
3. Wound on characte can LoS (Bob put those 2 wounds on 2 other model on 3+, 2+ if Idependant Char)

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