I seem to get a few more emails to Warpstone Flux these days than when I started out. I try to reply to all of them, but I'm not as fast as other bloggers are (e.g., Kirby's fantastic 3++ blog). This email (reproduced with the permission of the owner) is about starting out with daemons of Khorne. Comments welcome.
Hi Jabber Jabber,
My local group is just starting out and I want to collect Khorne Daemons. Can you have a look at my list an let me know what you think please? (NB: I don't want to buy fleshhounds as they're too expensive).
Skarbrand (300 points)
3 Bloodcrushers with an icon and instrument (150 points)
10 Bloodletters with an icon and instrument (190 points)
10 Bloodletters with an icon and instrument (190 points)
Soul Grinder with Phlegm (160 points)
Reply:
I'm worried by a couple of things in your list. Firstly, there is a low number of models. This is because a lot of points are invested in to Skarbrand (nearly a third in fact). Secondly, the soul grinder is on its own. Any melta gun in your opponent's armoury is going to be headed its way fast! Although I sometimes use a single soul grinder as "bait" for my opponents, it is not a highly recommended strategy these days.
For instruments, I would say do without them. Your Khorne daemons should not need them in the slightest. See a fuller discussion on instruments of chaos here. Also at 1000 points, there are three icons that chew up a total of 75 points. My suggestion is to do without them at this points level (and maybe include them in future units once you build to higher points values / and once we learn what is going on with the Grey Knights codex...!).
I'm guessing by the comment about the fleshhounds that you want to stick with plastics (perhaps apart from a Bloodthirster?). If that is the case, then we should look at using some daemon princes, heralds and more bloodcrushers.
Here's one suggestion for a re-build (and it is only a suggestion -- my readers may want to comment more and disagree!).
HQ: Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut with unholy might (120 pts)
HQ: Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut with unholy might (120 pts)
Elites: 3 Bloodcrushers (120 pts)
Troops: 10 Bloodletters (160 pts)
Troops: 10 Bloodletters (160 pts)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince, Mark of Khorne, Daemonic Flight (155 pts)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince, Mark of Khorne, Daemonic Flight (155 pts)
That leaves 10 points left over to purchase blessings of the blood god, or fury of Khorne here or there, as you wish. One alternative would be to ditch one of the heralds for more bloodletters to increase the bodycount. But overall, it should be okay at this points level and competitive with your group that's just starting out. The only thing it truly lacks is ranged weapons (but you're playing Khorne!). Speed wouldn't hurt either, so if you ever re-consider buying fleshhounds, I can really recommend them for your list!
Hi Jabber Jabber, My local group is just starting out and I want to collect Khorne Daemons. Can you have a look at my list an let me know what you think please? (NB: I don't want to buy fleshhounds as they're too expensive).
Skarbrand (300 points)
3 Bloodcrushers with an icon and instrument (150 points)
10 Bloodletters with an icon and instrument (190 points)
10 Bloodletters with an icon and instrument (190 points)
Soul Grinder with Phlegm (160 points)
Reply:
I'm worried by a couple of things in your list. Firstly, there is a low number of models. This is because a lot of points are invested in to Skarbrand (nearly a third in fact). Secondly, the soul grinder is on its own. Any melta gun in your opponent's armoury is going to be headed its way fast! Although I sometimes use a single soul grinder as "bait" for my opponents, it is not a highly recommended strategy these days.
For instruments, I would say do without them. Your Khorne daemons should not need them in the slightest. See a fuller discussion on instruments of chaos here. Also at 1000 points, there are three icons that chew up a total of 75 points. My suggestion is to do without them at this points level (and maybe include them in future units once you build to higher points values / and once we learn what is going on with the Grey Knights codex...!).
I'm guessing by the comment about the fleshhounds that you want to stick with plastics (perhaps apart from a Bloodthirster?). If that is the case, then we should look at using some daemon princes, heralds and more bloodcrushers.
Here's one suggestion for a re-build (and it is only a suggestion -- my readers may want to comment more and disagree!).
HQ: Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut with unholy might (120 pts)
HQ: Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut with unholy might (120 pts)
Elites: 3 Bloodcrushers (120 pts)
Troops: 10 Bloodletters (160 pts)
Troops: 10 Bloodletters (160 pts)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince, Mark of Khorne, Daemonic Flight (155 pts)
Heavy Support: Daemon Prince, Mark of Khorne, Daemonic Flight (155 pts)
That leaves 10 points left over to purchase blessings of the blood god, or fury of Khorne here or there, as you wish. One alternative would be to ditch one of the heralds for more bloodletters to increase the bodycount. But overall, it should be okay at this points level and competitive with your group that's just starting out. The only thing it truly lacks is ranged weapons (but you're playing Khorne!). Speed wouldn't hurt either, so if you ever re-consider buying fleshhounds, I can really recommend them for your list!
2 comments:
I primarily play Daemons myself these days, and while I wouldn't advocate mono-builds, if you're going to do it embrace it!
I really prefer the second list. Frankly, I think it's about 75% more efficient than the Skarbrand build. I've seen some interesting ideas using him, but he's so expensive he shouldn't hit the board short of 2K.
I wouldn't normally advocate wings for the DP's, except here I think it's necessary. You've got to have something to reposition with, otherwise you'll find yourself stuck on one side of the board.
Re: Icons, I've started using them but wouldn't recommend them for those new to the army. That may seem counter-intuitive, but you have to learn to deepstrike properly before you can really take advantage of them. I still think they're unnecessary overall.
As a tactic, consider dropping the Heralds on Jugger with the Bloodletters. It'll help in a few different ways.
Great little post - sorry for the long reply - Brent
Hi Brent! -- Thanks for the long reply -- much appreciated.
As one daemons player to another: I agree with you on all points. In smaller points games such as the correspondent will be taking part in, I find that the bloodletters can act as a superb "herald delivery system", whilst simultaneously causing much mayhem themselves. The only thing I would add is that we mustn't expect the majority of the bloodletters to survive the journey in to melee.
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